3 Existential Threats to Democracy

Voter Suppression

Doug Berger 0:47
Want to talk to you today about voting rights, in particular, about the way that the republicans try to suppress voting in this country? I was having an argument on Twitter. Yeah, it was an argument on Twitter the other day with somebody, their opening argument was that if voter ID is racist, then requiring ID IDs with vaccination passports is racist. And they claim because it’s for the same reason that it would disproportionately affect people of color. And so those of us on the left should complain about that as well. If we’re going to complain about voter ID. And in talking to this person, they pretty much were thinking that voter id was a good thing, because it would make our election safer in it in support democracy or something like that. That was their argument. Well, first of all, if a business is asking you for proof of vaccination, and then they’re asking for an ID with it, that is not, that’s not a civil right, that is not something that that the federal government can get involved with, unless they make a law preventing that it’s not the same thing as voter suppression, it’s not the same thing as requiring an ID to vote, because that is affecting your right. Voting is a right, it is enshrined in the Constitution. And anything that does anything that somebody does to affect that right, should be looked at very closely. So that it doesn’t disproportionately affect people of color. But that whole thing about asking for an ID with with a vaccination card or something that’s for something else that we’ll do, we’ll talk about that. And another point, maybe when it becomes a problem, because it’s not a problem. And it’s just being used by some people on the right are conservatives to call out liberals as being hypocrites. I likened it to the Dear Muslima letter that Richard Dawkins wrote several years ago, to complain about feminists who didn’t seem to care about Islamic women being oppressed, which they do. We can do more than one thing at a time. But anyway, so we’ll leave that there. But what I wanted to talk about is about voting rights. And one of the arguments that this person I was talking to was making was that the just because an activity disproportionately affects a group of people doesn’t make it racist or, or exclusionary, or however you want to define it. Because they were talking about intent. You know, did lawmakers intend to disproportionately affect people of color? And he tended to claim that they, we should give them the benefit of the doubt? And I’m like, No, no, we don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. Because the intent is staring you right at the face just because they don’t use that particular words. Just because they don’t write the law. This is to keep black people from voting, doesn’t mean it’s not racist. And so, like I said, I had this argument a few days ago, and then the other day, John Oliver on his show. Last week, I guess what’s called late last week, I forget the title, or that it’s on HBO had a segment about voting suppression and how republicans do that. So I really want to share That video, because I think it’s very important. So I’m going to show a major portion of it, particularly couple of segments of two particular points that I want to talk about after the video. But this is from from john oliver show on HBO.

John Oliver 5:19
The thing is, if you do actually read these bills, you quickly find they absolutely make it harder to vote, and particularly for certain people. So tonight, we thought we would take a look at the attack on voting rights and how best to fight it. And let’s start with what is in these bills, because it’s a lot. For instance, in Texas, where remember, that guy claimed you can’t find a single instance of voter suppression. One thing that bill does is rollback a lot of the innovative measures put in place during the pandemic that made voting more accessible. Among other things. It gets rid of 24 hour drive through voting, both methods that Harris County implemented last year. And as the county clerk who oversaw that election points out, when you look at the precincts where those methods were most popular, it’s clear that the harm is pretty targeted.

Voice Over 6:08
Why are we taking 24 our voting away, because 56% of voters in November who use 24 hour voting, where people of color, and they know that while we take and drive through voting away, because 53% of those voters in 2020, were people of color.

John Oliver 6:25
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious who is being targeted that they might as well say you can’t arrive at a polling place exhibiting a face in the 300s or higher, sure, you know, saying people of color, but we all know what the fuck is happening. And it’s not just drove through voting, Texas and all these other states have added new barriers to voting by mail coincidentally, just a year after elections in which the percentage of black people who voted by mail searched past white voters. Meanwhile, all these states have put harsher voter id requirements in place, even though federal court cases found black and Latino voters in states with harsh laws disproportionately lacked access to the types of voter IDs required to vote. So already, when you do read these bills, you quickly find some shit in plain view. It’s like a second grader playing hide and seek, you’re bigger than the coffee table. Burt I can see your feet hands full face and you’re giggling very loudly, you didn’t do a good job at hiding. And some of those pushing these bills like this state representative from Georgia even argue that if a law does make it harder to vote, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Voice Over 7:39
I do believe that that voting in this country is a privilege and right and it’s right as well. But it ought to mean enough where you could put forth a little bit of effort in trying to cast your ballot.

John Oliver 7:53
Okay, except something can’t be a right and a privilege that you need to work for. Because those are two completely different things, for instance, is this has been a concerted organized effort over many years. But the reason it now has a much higher chance of working has to do with a pair of Supreme Court decisions that gutted the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act which prohibited racial discrimination in voting. The first decision Shelby County versus holder basically released these areas which had a prior history of discriminatory voting laws from having to run any new ones past the federal government first before they took effect. And the second one Brnovich versus DNC essentially found that even if a voting restriction has a discriminatory impact, that in itself doesn’t necessarily violate the Voting Rights Act. Those two decisions basically made it easier for some states to pass discriminatory laws, while at the same time making it much harder for anyone to challenge them. And given that one of the dwindling ways that you can still successfully Sue under the VRA is by demonstrating a bill is racially motivated. It is hardly surprising that those passing these new laws have been quick to shut down any discussion of their racial impact. In fact, in Texas, in the midst of debating their new bill, that was this incredible moment,

Voice Over 9:15
members is a reminder to everyone to be civil and respectful of our colleagues. As we debate SB one. The chair would appreciate members not using the word racism this afternoon.

John Oliver 9:32
If the word you don’t want people to use is racism. I hate to break it to you, but you’re doing a racism. Someone might have told you that sooner but in fairness, you told them they’re not allowed. A constant theme in debate over these bills is black elected officials pointing out their impact and their white colleagues telling them to be quiet. In Arizona back in April, they were debating a bill that makes it hard for many voters to receive an early ballot in the mail. But watch what happened when one lawmaker started pointing out the disproportionate impacts that that would have.

Voice Over 10:07
The effect of this bill will make it harder for independent voters, seniors, Native Americans, black, brown and low income people to vote to each of you for underwater, it’s 2022 point of order. I have 12 words for you order. point of order so out of order.

John Oliver 10:32
Okay, you should never shout someone down when they only want to say 12 words unless of course those 12 words are his testicles became swollen his friend who was weeks away from getting married. And look, I know, that obviously does not look good. But wait until you see that man’s colleague read from the rulebook to explain his point of order.

Voice Over 10:53
In accordance with rule 19. A no member shall be permitted to indulge in personalities use language personally offensive arraign motives of members charged deliberate misrepresentation or use language tending to hold a member of the House or Senate up to contempt. And I feel personally that motives were arraigned of members, including myself with regards to colored people, black people, whatever people that’s individual wants to single out in their ability to vote? And I don’t think it’s correct. And I think he should be sat down and he shouldn’t be allowed to speak.

John Oliver 11:24
Oh, fuck, all the way off.

Doug Berger 11:28
Yeah, so the reason why I wanted to show that video is because it brings up two salient points that I want to discuss a little bit further. The first thing was that the Supreme Court decision said that just because a policy or law disproportionately affects a particular group, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a racist. And in order to prove that it’s racist, you have to bring out you have to prove the intent of the legislators who introduced that bill, some of the voter ID laws that have been struck down have been struck down because when they were discussing it, they kind of gave up gave away how what was going to happen was that they were trying to suppress the vote. So they’re not going to do that. So that’s why I include that second part where the Speaker of the Texas Legislature said don’t use racism and, and the Arizona guy wanted his colleague shouted down or to be quiet, because he was calling them out for doing what they are doing. And, and further that video goes, and I am going to have the link up on the on the show notes. So you know, check the whole thing out. And they talk about, you still need a reason to pass these laws. And if you can’t put down while we want to keep black people from voting, then you have to find another reason. And that other reason that they always trot out is they talk about fraud. And they talk about voter fraud. And so even though there is no systemic voter fraud, there, there’s been times when it has happened. And unfortunately, recently, the people that have been perpetrating voter fraud have been Republicans. There was this during the 2020 election, there was this politician in Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, that voted for his mother, who had been dead. It was either as mother as father, but they’ve been dead, like, more a few months, and he voted for them. And so and then you have in Georgia, during one of the special elections, a guy got caught, or it might have been in North Carolina got caught gathering up collecting ballots, and changing them and submitting them, you know, perpetrating fraud, but it’s not systemic. It doesn’t happen everywhere. It’s not a problem in it, and these laws, they create them to protect, protect us from voter fraud that doesn’t exist. And so that’s always a euphemism for let’s keep minorities from voting, or let’s keep low income people from voting. And that’s all it is. And I really like how John Oliver you know, points that out uses his humor and his show to point out the BS is the total BS that a lot of these places are using. And they’re using that in Ohio. Frank LaRose, who’s the Secretary of State for Ohio, has been crowing about how great Ohio’s election 2020 election turned out, which by the way, Trump won by eight points. And they are still considering laws to make it harder to vote in Ohio. And because when you can’t get elected on your ideas, you game the system, either through gerrymandering, which I’ve talked about previously, in another episode, or voter suppression laws, that’s the main way that they are going about trying to maintain power in the state of Ohio. And we just need to keep in Call, call them on it, and and keep up the pressure. Again, my position is, we need to federalize the elections. And that’s what the one bill, the voting rights bill that’s currently was passed by the House of Representatives in DC, and is now under consideration in the Senate that needs to be passed. Because what it will do is it will standardize election process in every state, and it should be the 14th Amendment says that citizens of the different states should not be treated differently, because they live in a different state.

Doug Berger 16:24
And voting is a constitutional federal right. So it should be governed by federal law. And that is that policies made in DC. And and for they for the exact same reason why you have these patchwork of voter suppression laws in these different states. Because we don’t have a national federal level of standard operating procedures. And we need to, and I’ve talked about that before as well. But anyway, so check out that whole video. I got the link up in the show notes. And you’ll enjoy it. I really thank you well.

Doug Berger 17:06
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Taliban Josh Mandel

Doug Berger 17:34
One of the people that is running for the US Senate from Ohio is Josh Mandel. He previously had been treasurer of the state of Ohio. In he’s been a state legislator. And he has decided that for his campaign, he is going to take the high road and push a religious extremist agenda. And he’s been very adamant about it very upfront about it. And basically it’s because he’s trying to get curry favor with the people that supported Donald Trump in the last election. However, Trump himself is not supporting Mendel at this time. He’s throwing his support towards Jane Timkin. And so I believe that this is one way that Mandel can try to gain some traction by currying favor with the religious extremists that live in Ohio. They do make up a small percentage of the electorate, but he’s not too bright. And I think that like previous people that have come before him that have tried to curry favor with the extreme religion, religious people in Ohio, he’s not gonna be too successful. In order to win Ohio you don’t being conservative that that’s like a default status for a lot of these candidates. And so you have to kind of carve yourself out as being a certain brand of conservative and he’s decided to go religious extremist. And unfortunately, like I said, that’s just a small sliver of the electorate here in Ohio. There are a lot of conservative people. There are a lot of religious people who are conservative, but they’re not batshit crazy conservative like Josh Mandel seems to be. And I really don’t think he is. I think he’s playing apart he he’s doing anything he can he seen anything that he can in order to get elected. And one of those things was, he did this interview with the Washington Examiner. It’s similar to an op ed that I responded to several months ago, where he’s talking about putting religion back into the school. He thinks that that will do something. And so let’s take a look a quote from this particular article. And it says the secular left is waging a war right now on faith, and they’re trying to water down the Judeo Christian bedrock of America, Mandel told, told The Washington Examiner in an interview this week, during a brief trip to Washington, DC, we should be doubling down in history, instilling belief in God in the classroom, in the workplace, and throughout society. And, of course, I disagree. And many people disagree. The reason why we have a First Amendment is to keep people from doing what he wants to do put in, in installing a belief in God in the classroom, in the workplace, and throughout society. That isn’t any different than what the Taliban are doing in Afghanistan right now. No difference at all. It’s just a different version of sectarianism. It because in in Afghanistan, you have Islam, and here in the United States, Mandel wants a Taliban version of Christianity. And that is going to be bad news for everybody. Everybody involved.

Doug Berger 21:22
Anyway, with other people, religious extremist people like Mandel. The other thing that they like to do is they like to consider that the Bible in the constitution are not supposed to be separate, as he said in this July tweet, which is also incorrect. Our country is supposed to have a tradition of the separation of church and state. It’s been perverted, of course, by many people that have come before Mandel. And it really hasn’t been since the mid 20th century up until today, that we’ve actually had somewhat separation of church and state through different court decisions. And so, as I said, besides the Bible and the Constitution thing that they they like to float around. One of the things that happened recently was that President Biden had announced that there was going to be vaccine mandates, or were government workers. And he’s also going to mandate it for private employers who had a certain number of workers. And he was going to do that through OSHA, which is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. They’re the people that are in charge of the health and safety of workers. And so that’s a natural place to put a vaccine mandate is in that agency. And so, of course, the extremists, right, like Mandel, which by the way, I should point out he is Jewish. So why he’s going with Christianity just tells you all you need to know about the performance that he’s performing in running for office anyway. So of course, the right is like, ticked off that Biden wants to do this, and so Mandel put up a video quickly on his social media channels, complaining about the vaccine mandate. So let’s take a listen to this.

Josh Mandel 23:35
Hey, guys, it’s Thursday night, September 9. I’m driving through Western Ohio, we’re driving through a cornfield, here, a town called Logansville Ohio, my blood is boiling. In rage that what I’ve seen from the White House today, trampling on our freedom, trampling on our liberty, trampling on what I took an oath to defend when I joined the Marine Corps, Joe Biden, I’m not even gonna call him President Biden. He’s not Joe Biden is creating a constitutional crisis. And as I was driving through this cornfield, I literally came across this sign was Trump sign, he is my president. And I’m hoping and praying that the Supreme Court justices that he appointed to the US Supreme Court will do the right thing. And stand up for the Constitution, stand up for our freedom, stand up for our liberty. And if they don’t, I call on my fellow Americans do not comply. Do not comply with the tyranny and when the Gestapo show up at your front door, you know what to do.

Doug Berger 24:45
And so, as you can see, he’s basically making a threat how they say well, that’s what the Second Amendment toward assault You know, he didn’t say, you know, take up arms but he Making a threat that people should not comply, and they should not comply with force. And so that’s another part of these religious extremists, just like the Taliban in Afghanistan. It’s the same thing that they do. They’re doing it here in the United States. And see, the thing is, is when you tell people that and when you pointed out to them, they get all upset that you’re comparing them to Islamic terrorists. And it’s like, there’s really no difference. The only real difference is, you know, at least they’re not. At least they’re not setting off any explosive devices to get their way. Not at least not yet. Anyway. I mean, they have in the past, if you want to look it up Google abortion clinic bombings? Eric Rudolph was the perpetrator of that. So it has happened before, it’s just not a common occurrence. What is a common occurrence with the Christian Taliban here in the United States, is that they threatened to take up arms to install to install their version of religion in public life. And it’s a danger to all of us, not just not just to marginalized communities. It’s a it’s a danger to democracy. And Josh Mandel is a danger to democracy. And that’s why he does not deserve to be elected to the US Senate.

Doug Berger 26:30
For more information about any of the topics covered in this episode, check out our show notes at secular left.us.

School Board Takeover

Doug Berger 26:44
One of the things that have marked this summer, kind of like what we had last year, during the height of the first round of COVID, was protesters, people protesting government action that was being taken to protect people. And what that evolved into this summer, where people complaining at school board meetings, when the issues of mask mandates and vaccine mandates have come up. And basically these people have been loud and obnoxious. For example, in Findlay city schools, which is my hometown School District, they had two or three school board meetings where mask mandates weren’t even on the agenda. And they still had people wanting to talk about mask mandates. Because what it is, is these these people think that if they talk all if they talk about it enough, that action will be taken in their in their benefit. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. Sometimes it does sometimes school districts cave. I know there was many school districts in my area that started out with mask optional. The started out the school year from because they had pressure from people at school board meetings. And they eventually went to mask mandates. Because one of the things that happens with with the people get COVID is that then the people that they come in contact with have to quarantine and that means they’re not in school. And some of the school districts have had hundreds of students quarantine for 10 days, because maybe one or two people came down with COVID. There’s also been a couple of school districts in my area where educators teachers have died from COVID. And so you still have these people, mostly white, mostly suburban, mostly affluent, and conservative, complaining about masked mandates of vaccine mandates at school. And what that then moves into is why I have this graphic up, is they decide to run for school boards. Because they want to protect the children. Some some bullcrap like that some bullcrap like that, about protecting children from not being indoctrinated in. And the latest Boogeyman is critical race theory, which, of course we all know, if you’re smart, and you read up on these things. You know that public schools are not teaching critical race theory is just a Boogeyman. And that’s what this mass mandate vaccine mandate stuff is to. It’s just a way of dividing people, causing chaos that conservatives love, because then they come in and save supposedly save the day. So for example, these For women here that I have in this graphic are running for Van Buren school board. And one of the hallmarks of a conservative running for elective office, especially if they’re a neophyte, or they’ve never held office. Well, I probably shouldn’t say that, because it’s kind of afflicts all pretty much all conservatives is, if they’re running for office, or they’re in office, they don’t like people challenging them, or challenging their views. They think that that is wrong, that that’s hateful, and they want to shut that stuff down. And that’s what happened. In the case of this, this, these four women running for Van Buren school board, they’re running together. So obviously, they’re all friends and, and they all have this, they share the same values, they, they want the ABC s coming back, whatever that means, oh, ABCs, accountability, basics, communication, success, whatever that means. That’s nice and vague. But one of these women and I’m not sure who because this was just something I saw on Facebook, that was posted on Twitter feed that I look at, for the area. And one of these women have an issue with their one of their children, who happens to be homosexual. And Gee, imagine that that a conservative woman would have a problem with their child being being gay.

Doug Berger 31:30
Surprise, no, I’m not surprised at all. But anyway, so let’s look at this comment. Now. This is this was just after this page had opened this page for the this these group of women here. So let’s take a look at this comment that somebody posted shortly after this page became public. Anyway, so it looks like somebody was saying that, he says, I was wondering if you could address how the four of you would support LGBTQ students in a Van Buren School District, one of your promoted members has spent her in her lifetime showing her adult son shoving her adult son into the darkest corner of the closet to protect her own narcissist. And I’m sure they’ve said image and found imagine Is that what you for support for LGBT Van Buren students in the lifetime of trauma, trauma and mental health disorders that accompany in it as your candidate and her extremely closeted son, because of his mother’s overbearing, traumatic abuse. So basically one of these women has an adult son, who is gay, and they have been trying to push them into the closet for all these years. And and yes, we know that that is abuse, traumatic abuse. So this person who actually probably knows what’s going on, I don’t know who this person is, wanted their comments. So what did they do? They shut down all the comments on that page. They deleted that comment. And they closed off comments, I said, due to hateful comments, we have decided to make this a read only page. And that’s how it usually goes is usually when people make comments about a conservative candidate. They take it as a personal affront, and abuse. And then they start complaining. And then they cancel people. And yeah, I know cancel doesn’t really exist. But I’m just for the sake of argument, let’s say canceling existed. That’s what these conservative candidates do is they like to cancel people who don’t agree with them. Now, personally, the way I look at it is, if you are an elected official, or you are running for elective office, you have an obligation to respond to challenges of your views. You have an obligation to respond to people asking you questions. Even if you don’t like the questions, even if you don’t like the people asking the questions. Because if you are running for office, or you get elected, you are representing everybody. Not just the people who voted for you. You’re also representing the people who didn’t vote for you, the people that don’t like you, and you have an obligation as an elected official to talk to them. Okay. Now, having said that, if you are a parent, or a friend of a parent, and you believe that you have a right to speak at a school board meeting That’s something else, you do have a right to speak at a school board meeting. But the school board also has a right to create rules and procedures in order for you to be heard. And that is not violating your first amendment rights, you know, because first amendment is limited in time manner in place. in a, in a body, a government body, like a school board has to be able to tweak its time manner and place rules. So one so they can hear everybody, and to that it’s done in a in a manner that is democratic and professional. And, and that it doesn’t cause harm to other people.

Doug Berger 35:52
And so, that’s the one thing and it just kind of cracks me up when, when some of these people that are speaking at school board meetings complain that they aren’t being heard while they’re being heard I, I support mask mandates. And so when my my local school board, my hometown school board was being inundated by these anti maskers, which I should point out, is a small, tiny minority of people. You know, the the polling has shown that people support mass mandates for schools and vaccine mandates for schools and Vax mandates for staff overwhelmingly, like 60% support it. So just this small minority is raising this ruckus and, and causing chaos at school board meetings. So I sent a letter to support the mask mandates to my hometown school board, email, I got back saying, you know, thank you for your your email, the school board members read all emails, but we can’t respond to every single one that’s standard. But to these conservatives, if they get that standard response, they just send more emails, and then they complain that they’re not getting a response. And that’s just ridiculous. But anyway, so that’s just in my local area, it’s not too bad, just a lot of just a screeching, shrill, minority, small number of people that are complaining. In other areas, we’ve actually had police being called almost riots being broken up. Because people just don’t know how to, to communicate without violence. And a lot of this has been directed at school board members who shouldn’t do it. So what happened was that the National School Board Association, that represents all the school boards in the country, asked the Department of Justice to take a look at some of these more violent looking incidents, and to take a closer look at some of these groups that are doing this, because it’s all it’s at what they call astroturfing. It’s where you have a political group that funds this, and it organizes it to basically cause chaos. For political means. And so they want the Department of Justice to look into it. So here’s a report from Chris Hayes on MSNBC, one of the congressmen in a hearing was complaining about the Department of Justice looking at these school board complainer’s and thinking that it’s like we’ve walked into Soviet Union again, you know, one of those things but but the Chris Hayes show, they put in some clips to show some of these bad things that are going on. So let’s take a look at that clip.

Chris Hayes 39:07
He thinks innocent parents are being silenced by the GA DOJ for politely disagreeing with our local government. He was indignant as he asked the deputy attorney general about the existence of school board threats and intimidation, which is frankly kind of astounding when the reality of what’s happening on the ground is undeniable.

Sen. Josh Hawley 39:26
Is waiting to express one’s view at a school board meeting, harassment and intimidation.

Voice Over 39:31
We know. We know. [garbled]

Sen. Josh Hawley 39:40
harassment and intimidation. What are those terms mean in the context of a local school board meeting

Voice Over 39:46
the death threat was you’re going to get knifed? You’re going to get a

Sen. Josh Hawley 39:51
femur dead Tell me where the line is. With Parents expressing their concerns, waiting for hours in the school. departments we’ve all seen the videos this happened in my state

Voice Over 40:02
people were actually throwing hitting each other outside the auditorium this evening after the board unanimously voted to approve requiring mass

Sen. Josh Hawley 40:12
if this isn’t a deliberate attempt to chill parents from showing up at school board meetings for their elected school board, I don’t know what is

Voice Over 40:21
one of the board members, they called for her and her children to choke and die. Another one said that the board member was about to get ruined. Another one suggested another board member die by suicide, calling also for harassment and bullying of board members, you are

Sen. Josh Hawley 40:36
attempting to intimidate them, you are attempting to silence them,

Voice Over 40:41
it has an effect on you that you can’t really put into words. When someone describe the way they want to come into your home. And end your life. I cannot

Sen. Josh Hawley 40:53
believe that an attorney general The United States is engaging in this kind of conduct. And frankly, I can’t believe that you are sitting here today, defending it.

Chris Hayes 41:02
Josh Hawley’s very upset. We’re gonna send him that montage just to read them into a little bit of what’s been going on at the local level, but I suspect he knows.

Doug Berger 41:12
Yeah, so that was just a clip of some of the more agraria ‘s and curious. Some of the more egregious, there we go. Some of the more egregious protests that have been going on at school boards. And it’s it’s ridiculous. It says ridiculous is the people complaining about opening up businesses back last summer, when they are complaining about the lockdown. And its political who, who imagined that public health protecting public health would become political. It’s just dumb. It’s just a dumb thing to argue about. But it’s the only thing that conservatives have. You know, they don’t have a policy. They don’t have, you know, the trickle down. tax cuts didn’t work. You know, they don’t have an answer to the COVID. Because they screwed that up the response to the COVID. You know, and they just that’s all they’ve got is they’ve got to come up with these manufactured dramas, to split people apart. When bush was President Bush Jr. was president, they had same sex marriage was the divider. When Obama was president, they had the Obamacare the Affordable Care Act, that was the the divider. And now this This time, it’s it’s mask mandates and vaccine mandates for kids. And so they’re running with it and CRT. They’re running with it. And it’s just, you got to put it, people have got to put a stop to it, and call them on it, because it’s bs it’s total BS. And so the next time you hear news report about parents complaining, just remember, it’s a small, tiny, tiny group of people that are complaining, and they’re complaining about public health protecting public health. So if they claim to be pro choice, I think they need to give their card back.

Doug Berger 43:19
Thank you for listening to this episode. You can check out more information, including links to sources used in our show notes on our website at secularleft.us Secular Left is hosted, written and produced by Doug Berger, and he is solely responsible for the content. Send us your comments, either using the contact form on the website or by sending us a note at comments At secularleft.us Our theme music is “Dank and Nasty”. Composed using Ampify studio. See you next time.

[Transcript is approximate to what was recorded]

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